Monday, February 1, 2010

A story of two different lives with the same chart

This is a real story that is about a century old.

A servant of a rich man had a son born and the four pillars were taken to a famous astrologer for a reading. The astrologer said, "The baby has the famous Yi supported by a noble rat type of chart. His achievement will be great." The servant went home happily.

The rich man also had a son born on the same day at the same time. He also asked the same astrologer for a reading. The astrologer said, "This baby will live a happy normal life without much achievement." The wealthy man was very disappointed and said angrily to the astrologer, "Why do you give two entirely different readings on the same chart? My servant's son was born at the same time as my son. Why will he have great achievement while my son will be ordinary? You don't deserve the great name you earned."

The astrologer said in a calm voice, "Well, the rat works well in the dark. Your servant's son was born without much light as he is from a poor family. Your son was born with so much light in the room as if he was born in day time. The rat cannot work well in a bright environment. Therefore, the rat for your son is not the noble rat."

The story tells us a lot, right?



Naseeb said...

Dear Master Joseph,

How did the story end? Was the astrologer right in his predictions?

Best regards,

Monica said...

Some people, when given everything like the ruler's son, will never amount to anything. Others, raised in the dark, will claw their way out. I would say that being raised in the dark makes you appreciate the light.

Martina said...

Independent of our "destiny" and/or the circumstances we are born in - I would like to say the following:
If the rich man would have reacted in a way to be thankful for the normal, but still happy life for his son, he would have given inner peace, love and self-esteem to his son and the son might have - despite the predictions of the astrologer - gained achievements (the "rat" is able adapt).
The servant on the other hand did not realize that the astrologer predicted great achievements, but did not mention anything about a happy life for his son; the servant will now have big expectations, might put his son under pressure and might make his son very unhappy. So, what is the "better" prediction of both? In my view, it's best to accept and love your child as it is (even if it sometimes seems like a stranger) and listen to your inner voice to enhance a natural development - what will be will be. For everything, there is a special reason.

Howard said...

This story tells me if a child has a noble pig type of a chart, then he had better be born in a pigsty, a clean delivery room won't do! :-)

Joseph Yu said...

Dear Naseeb,

The astrologer did not live long enough to see whether his assessment was correct.


Joseph Yu said...

Dear Howard,

The environment does have an effect on the strength of the elements at the moment of birth. Assuming that the baby was born in the Si, Wu or Wei month, then if Zi hour is the only element that can pacify the fire in the chart, the environment better not suppress the action of Zi. Of course, the astrologer had the humour to talk about the activity of the rat instead to make it easier for the man on the street.

Likewise Hai hour will have the hour pillar Ding Hai. Assuming the baby was born in summer, the Hai can be considered the noble pig. However, a wet and dirty pigsty does not make Hai water better than a bright delivery room. There is a little difference.


Howard said...

Hi Joseph,

Humors aside (and having a sense of humor is quite important for Xuanxue is a serious matter!), I find it interesting that everything we do has yin and yang as well.

There is always the subjective interpretations with the objective observations, there is always space with time, nature with nurture, the ideal with the practical, the form with the formless and accuracy with wild guesses, etc, etc.

It seems the trick is always to find the balance between the yin and the yang, so our life can be whole again for a time being, and we should have enough humility to realize that there are things we have no control over and there also things we can do to make a difference.

In the end, we born and we die, like the seasons came and went, and what we do in between is our Ming, or what we Human and Heaven and Earth dictated.

Personally, I would call this post, "A story of two different interpretations with the same chart" instead of "A story of two different lives with the same chart". We never know!

Best wishes and Kung Hei Fatt Choy!


Foon said...

Dear Joseph

The astrologer was 'right' on both counts and he gave the rich man some very good advice.

Assuming 'famous yi' refers to yi as the daymaster, then water in the rat is resource that supports the daymaster.

Already at birth the son of the rich man was given more than what was needed, too much light in the room. Whereas the servant's son was born in the dark, he was not given anything extra.

'Famous Yi' also suggests fire/output significant in chart. Wood needs water to help the fire burn brightly, but too much fire puts out the fire. The son of the rich man cannot have great achievement if he is given more than he needs and is spolit.

The servant's son will not be given too much and the resource/water from heaven in his chart will support him to burn brightly with his own magnificent accomplishments.

The astrologer was very clever because if the rich man was told that his son would have good achievement, he would be more likely to spoil his son. The rich man, if he understood, would be aware that it should not be taken for granted that his son would have achievement and his parenting would be to encourage his son to have achievement and not to be over-reliant on his priviledged background.

This is how a skilled astrologer should work. We give our clients the needed, relevant and benefical guidance. Like the cook needs to start off with the right ingredients, the astrologer needs to start off with the right chart.
If the astrologer has a good 'EQ' and can read people as well as charts then he or she can really help people live fulfilling lives. Any astrologer who is overly concerned about accuracy in readings needs to ask him/herself, if that concern is about helping people or if that concern is an expression of the shadow side of the ego, about needing to prove something.

Thank you for sharing such a wonderful story!

Foon said...

>Any astrologer who is overly concerned about accuracy in readings needs to ask him/herself, if that concern is about helping people or if that concern is an expression of the shadow side of the ego, about needing to prove something.

Hi Foon, all,

If two surgeons are discussing the accuracy of their instruments and method, does it mean it is their ego trying to prove something?
The people who see it that way are only telling us something about the way their egos function.

Looking at accuracy of tools and methods is about trying to "verify" and improve them. And that's what any professional would do, regardless what is his "art".


The astrologer in this story may have given very bad advice. We don't know because the story doesn't tell us what happened to these two little boys.

The rich man, who was told that his child will have little achievement, may go home and believe what the astrologer said.
As a result he may give that boy no chances or responsibilities, thinking that it will lead to nothing anyway. All chances are given to another son.
As a result the boy lost confidence, got depressed and became a drunkard.
Good advice this astrologer has given.

The servant goes home with too high expectations about the newborn, he immediately tells the whole neighborhood about what the astrologer has predicted.
Later on this father puts pressure on the boy to realize the great achievements that the astrologer has predicted for him. As a result this child is very unhappy, because what he does is never considered good enough. Maybe this boy only wants to live a normal happy life.
Again the astrologer's advice may have been a total disaster.

This story shows exactly how a good astrologer does NOT work.


The future of a newborn child cannot be predicted from the chart alone. That's what he should tell the parents first. When the child grows up it will become clear if he develops the strengths and weaknesses that are indicated in the chart.
So the good astrologer will want to verify the accuracy of his reading by seeing what characteristics are actually showing up in the boy.
Maybe his initial reading was completely off the mark. Then he has to accept it.
And this may totally alter any advice given to the parents.

That's why an astrologer is constantly concerned with and aiming for accuracy.
That's simply his obligation to the customer.
Because without accuracy his advice will often do more harm than good.


Antje said...

I find the story doesn´t tell much as it is too short. A lot of information is lacking.

I.e. From where does the astrologer know if the son of the rich man was born in a bright room? This was obviously only his assumption. Maybe the rich man is a very niggardly man and they didn´t have much light at all in the birth room because he wants to save electricity.
Or the birth of the servants son and the rich mans son took place in the same room as the rich man was so gracious to help the servants wife.
The story doesn´t tell that...

From a more Western scientific point of view:
When we assume that the 4 pillars technique shows something what has to do with circadian rhythms as the amount of daylight has influence on the inner clock, hormones etc. and with that on human experiences - then we might say that in the rat-hour the melatonin production is very high. But according to my knowledge it needs at least 10,000 Lux of light to simulate daylight artificially, to have an influence on the melatonin production. And a century ago they definitely didn´t have 10,000 lux lamps, even not rich people.

So from that point of view the astrologer might be wrong.


Foon said...

Hi there

The astrologer was speaking metaphorically, so don't take it literally.

Within the context of the story you can take it that the rich man did not dispute that his son was born in a bright room and the servant's son was not.

The astrologer remained calm in the face of an aggressive attack on his character by the rich man. I like the astrologer's style.
Your comment:
"The future of a newborn child cannot be predicted from the chart alone."
gives credibility to the astrologer giving two different readings for the same chart. As astrologer's we need to work with an accurate chart and we need to be accurate in assessing the favourable/unfavourable elements.

We don't have the full birth charts, but it is accurate to say that a yi DM born in rat hour will have bing hour stem. Regardless of the rest of the chart, there is resource/water to support DM. Also to warrant 'famous yi' the bing hour stem will likely have root in a branch elsewhere in a chart.

Now tell me, honestly, Danny did you do such an assessment of the partial information or did you just jump on my comments because you wanted to contradictory comments for the sake of being contradictory?

Best Regards,

Best Regards,

Antje said...

I got another idea for interpretation of the given information.

The astrologer and the rich man had some misunderstanding. The astrologer actually didn´t say that they will have a different life according to an objective point of view. Probably the astrologer was pointing how life will feel “subjectively” for each son.
I.e. For rich people it might be "normal" when the son gets a university degree, while for the son of a servant the same university degree will feel like "great achievement".

So the astrologer was talking about the subjective perception of life while the keyfacts will be the same for both sons.
And talking about the rat was symbolic for the subjective point of view towards the same keyfacts.
But I don´t think it was a "good" way of communication...